Tuesday, July 17, 2012

FamilyLife 2.0

So on to day two. You can read day one if you haven't.

It is absolutely amazing to me how much they repeat themselves. I guess if you don't have much to say, say it again.


FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript
Things to Consider

Bob: Some families today are breaking with cultural norms and traditions and deciding that Mom will be the provider and Dad will stay at home and raise the kids. Dennis Rainey says the long-term implications of that decision are consequential.

Take note of the "breaking with cultural norms" because the opposite of that is going to be argued soon.

Dennis: I've watched a number of couples make this decision. In their 20s, it was fun and kind of novel. In their 30s, it was okay. When they hit the 40s, they hit a wall; and they wake up, one day, angry.

You need to make some better friends.

And they don't get over it, especially the women. They get angry at the price they've paid, at the loss of being a mom, and at the man who was supposed to provide. They are looking at him, and they're evaluating him. They say, “He's running around, having a lot of fun; and he's become passive.”

Is this true for at home mom's as well? Are they just running around having a lot of fun? Because it seems in your first broadcast you talked about how hard they worked and you wouldn't want to do it because it was so hard.

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, July 17th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. So, is there something really wrong with making the decision for your family—Mom is the provider and Dad stays home to take care of the kids?

No!

We're going to talk about that today. Stay tuned.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. So, you're going to take on “Mr. Mom” today; right?

Dennis: No, I'm not going to take on anybody. Mr. Mom was a movie that had the actor, Michael Keaton, in it. He had to stay home for a period of time because he lost a job; but it wasn't a permanent decision between him and his wife. He didn't become a stay-at-home dad on a long-term basis.

What I want to talk about today is probably best illustrated by Becky, who wrote me on Facebook®. She said, “My husband has been a stay-at-home dad. He calls himself a homemaker, which he is. I work full-time, and it works great for our family. He does the homeschooling of our kids, as well. I think, when you look at this, you need to see how God has gifted each of you and not go by what society expects.

Sounds like things are working well for you. Let's try to change that shall we.

“We got a lot of flack when we decided to do this, mostly from the Christian community. It was quite disheartening. My husband and I are in partnership to raise our family. Our kids are well-adjusted. They are actively involved at church and love Jesus Christ.”

That sounds awful. Time to fix that.

Bob: What we've already heard you say is that, as you look at this, you don't see it as a black-and-white issue, with an absolute sense—that it is always right or always wrong—for a dad to be at home as a stay-at-home dad; but you do think there is some biblical wisdom we can apply.

Dennis: I want to say that it is not wrong, 100 percent of the time, to stay at home, as a dad. It's not right, 100 percent of the time, to stay at home. I think some people are making that decision for the wrong reasons. I think some people are making that decision without understanding where it is going to take them, without understanding what it is going to do to their kids, and without understanding what it is going to do to their marriage, to their family, to their relationships, to them and their identity. But I'm running ahead of myself, at this point, and throwing the stone too soon.

Did you guys listen to the first show? I think you already said this.

Bob: [Laughter]

Dennis: I have four questions that I would ask a couple who would be considering this kind of lifestyle. The first question really gets near the heart of the matter, in my opinion. Ultimately, what are the values that this decision represents for your marriage, your family, and your children?

That we are partners working together to do what is best for our family. Those are the values that went into our decision.

Ultimately, Bob, I believe it is a value decision. As I've heard a lot of people make the decision, I think that money and standard of living is ultimately driving—not all, not all, certainly, not all—but is driving a number of folks to make this decision so that they can provide a standard of living that provides a lot of comfort and freedom for their family.

Having one spouse at home, either one, is a sacrifice. We could have more money coming in but we value our family more than that. We don't have cable but we have a parent at home.

Bob: Now, you're saying that is a factor for some couples. They are just looking at the raw economics of it. They are saying the wife can make a whole lot more money than the husband can. So, doesn't it just make sense—if she's earning and he's staying home so that you can enjoy the financial benefits?

That just seems like thinking.

If that is a couple's primary motivation, you're suggesting that couple really needs to pull back and say—

Dennis: I think they need to evaluate seriously because I think that can be and often is a faulty value system to make that decision.

Yes, having a husband work multiple jobs and never seeing the kids is a much better system.

I think, also, another value is that of fulfillment. We're talking about a woman who feels more fulfilled in the marketplace than she does at home and may say, “My husband is more gifted to stay home than I am.”

Bob: “He's more of a nurturer. He likes the home environment. I go stir-crazy when I'm around that.” I remember talking to a wife, one time, who said, “If I was at home, I would be a raving lunatic. It would not be good for our family.”

It may not be good for your family but you should do it anyway.

Dennis: Right. You talk about the consequences of all these decisions. First, you make your decisions and then your decisions make you. I talked to one person who said, “You know, I've watched a number of couples make this decision. In their 20s, it was fun and kind of novel. In their 30s, it was okay. When they hit the 40s, they hit a wall.” This person said, “They wake up, one day, angry. And they don't get over it, especially the women. They get angry at the price they've paid, at the loss of being a mom, and at the man who was supposed to provide. They are looking at him, and they‟re evaluating him. They say, "He's become passive; and he's just having a good time because the kids are now teenagers and don‟t really demand a lot of his time. So, he‟s running around, having a lot of fun."

That person you talked to was you. Did you hear the first part of the show?

I think what has to happen here is—I think you have to step back and you have to ask yourself, “What are the values that we embrace as a couple, and what are the kinds of values we want to represent our family? That really leads me to a second question, “Is the world pressing you into its mold as a man, as a woman, as a father, as a mother, and as a family?” Romans 12:1-2 says, “Don‟t be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

Remember the "breaking with cultural norms." Don't do that anymore!

The Scripture calls men, clearly, to be the heads of their homes—not a Gestapo head, not a dictator, but a servant leader of their wives and their children. Making money does not represent the power for a man to be the head of his home.

Because their is nothing more serving than literally serving your family.

Bob: Making money isn't how you demonstrate leadership.

So you are for at-home dads?

Dennis: No, it is one way that you can provide for your family; but because you make the most money or provide the money for the family, isn't the primary reason why a man is to be the head of his home. He's to be the head of his home because in the Bible—it clearly established a man as the leader of his home and called him to give up himself— to deny himself to follow Christ, and to lay down his rights to love his wife and his children. In some cases, Bob, it is a heavy mantle for a man to wear—to have to be that provider and to care for his family in extraordinary ways.

Bob: You know, some of our listeners heard you quote Romans 12:1-2—where you said, “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind,”—and they would say, “Now, Dennis, if I‟m being conformed to this world, I‟m going to embrace these traditional roles. I mean, the world has established the role of the husband in the work place and the wife at home. Isn't that being conformed to this world if I just jump in and say, "Okay that's how it has to be for us‟?”

Good point Bob.

Dennis: I don't think the world was the one who established that. I think that was established, in Scripture, in Ephesians, Chapter 5, verse 23, where it says, “For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church.” I think, if there is anything we need to be suspicious of today, it is anything that seeks to undermine the pattern that is found in the Scriptures—of God giving men clear responsibility to love, lead, serve, and deny themselves on behalf of their wives.

Wait, just a minute ago it had nothing to do with money.

Bob: So, the first two questions you are calling couples to look at—as they are evaluating—“What ought to be our response to this?” and, “Is this the right way for us to organize our family?”

Yes.

Question number one: “What do we value? What are the priorities that we are trying to establish here, and what is important to us?”

Think I already answered that.

Question number two is the question of, “Are we kicking against a biblical design? Are we being pressed by the culture into an unbiblical mold?”

No.

You really just have to pull back and say, “Are we taking our cues from the Scriptures and what it would teach us, or are we taking our cues from the culture we live in?”

How about neither.

Dennis: I know I've been strident here. I know some of our listeners have recoiled at that, and I'll get some mail.

You've Got Mail.

Bob: There is some bristling taking place, even as you speak.

Sorry that was me. Tacos for lunch.

Dennis: I realize that; but I said earlier, “I do not believe that a stay-at-home dad can do it and feel like it is right, 100 percent of the time. I don't think you could say it is wrong, 100 percent of the time. Are there cases where this can occur and should occur? I think it is possible. I really do. I think it happens; okay? I'm saying, "For this to become normative in the Christian family has huge consequences."

Like happy, healthy families.

That leads me to the third question or the third issue. “Will this decision ultimately create an identity crisis?” Will it create an identity crisis for men--of what true masculinity is and his responsibility to work and to provide for his family? Will it also create a crisis of identity for a woman—who she is and how God has hardwired her as a nurturer--one who cares about the next generation?

No. You are making this kind of easy.

I visited some of the websites for stay-at-home dads and read some of the comments. I have to say I really had compassion on a group of dads because you could sense it in their writing. They were wondering, “Who are we? I go to PTA meetings at school, and I'm there with a bunch of moms. Who am I? How do I relate to them? Where are the other men I have a chance to relate to?”

I think it is one of the reasons why this convention for stay-at-home dads occurs every year. I think that is why they gather together. They are looking for other men they can identify with to be able to have a sense of self-respect.

If you think men get their self respect from conventions then pastors must have the lowest self respect of all. There are always conventions for pastors going on.

Bob: Whenever I think about this issue, I go to passages like 1Timothy, Chapter 5, where Paul tells Timothy to instruct men--that if a man fails to provide for his family and for those of his household, he is worse than an unbeliever. He doesn't say, “If a person....” He doesn't say—it is not “man”, in a generic-sense. It's pretty clearly understood that the man is providing for his household. There seems to be a clear instruction to men that the provision role is something that rests with them.

Dennis: That's right. That passage you are talking about in 1 Timothy is actually talking about widows and how men are to provide for their extended family; but I think the principle can be applied here—that a man needs to assume the responsibility to be that one who does provide for his family.

When a man doesn't work, when a man is not employed permanently, he will not thrive.

Thriving!

I've watched it, Bob. Men who don't work, men who don't provide for their families will end up losing self-respect.

Totally agree. Those guys should try being at-home dads.

They will end up with a lot of confusion about what it means to be a man. They will end up becoming, in many cases, passive; and they will start to coast.

I admit it. I coast downhill when I ride bikes with the boys.

I want to read—my friend, Robert Lewis, who works here, at FamilyLife--in his book, New Eve—I want to read what he said here. He said, “For men, this spells an identity crisis of the first order. A Newsweek article bears this out. For, with few exceptions, stay-at-home dads, who were interviewed, confessed their dislike of this new role. Why? Because from earliest boyhood, males fix their eyes on the broader world, outside the home, where they have a God-made hunger for adventure and accomplishment.

Although if you look at actual research instead of Newsweek articles it says the opposite.

“Women, too, are exhilarated by success; but for men, it's the very stuff of life. Men, who aren't conquering turf God has called them to, are not merely standing still. They are losing ground, and their masculine soul, in the process. Something dies inside a man when he gives up on authentic manhood and settles for something less than the call that lies within them. His manhood becomes hollow. When a man surrenders his life and leadership to a woman, as Adam did to Eve, both inevitably hate it in the end.”

Loving it.

Bob: Yes.

Dennis: Those are pretty strong words.

Bob: I think we also need to talk about that provider woman in a family--the one who is out in the marketplace. She is going to have to wrestle with Titus, Chapter 2, where older women are instructed to teach younger women to be lovers of their husbands, lovers at home, and trainers of their children.

And slaves to be subject to their masters. They have to wrestle with that too.

Now, a woman may say, “I can work in the marketplace and do those things.”

She can.

Dennis: Right.

Bob: And I would say we are not disputing that; but there is a primary responsibility here, and your job is going to pull you away from that a lot.

Dennis: And again, we are not picking up another stone and throwing it at working moms.

No mom working is OK just not if dad is taking care of the home.

Bob: Yes, we are not addressing the two-parent working household. We are really talking about that situation where mom has taken on the mantle of provision and dad is saying, “I'll just stay home and keep the house.”

Is that what your wife was doing, just keeping the house? You know dad means their are kids involved.

Dennis: I think it is back to what my friend said. It's what is going to make her angry in the end. Is she really going to be happy with her identity and with how that gets expressed because I do think there is a hard-wiring issue here of how God created us, male and female.

Let me go onto a fourth question I would encourage couples to ask, “What is the message you are sending to your sons and daughters by having Dad stay at home and take care of the kids?”

Bob: You are modeling something; aren't you?

Have you noticed you just keep repeating yourselves. This really didn't need to be two shows.

Dennis: You really are. I'm thinking of a dad who never worked—never provided for his family. The wife struggled to provide for the kids. There were four kids in the family. Those kids grew up wondering, “What is the responsibility of a dad if he doesn't get out and work?”

Taking care of the kids and the house.

This dad didn't. I won't get into what he did, but he didn't go to work. As a result, those four kids—as they've grown up and married—have all struggled, from an identity standpoint, with either being a man and, “How you do provide for your family,” or with being a woman—a wife and a mother—and how to relate to a man who is something different than their frame of reference.

How did women ever know how to work if their mother's didn't model it for them?

It also reminds me of another story—that is really at the other end of the spectrum—of a father who had a very lucrative job—made a lot of money, had season tickets to the Dallas Cowboys games—and was laid off. He came home and told his kids. They were initially ashamed as they watched their father take a job that paid significantly less. He even worked alongside some teenagers—in a form of employment that he could find because of the economic situation in their community.

The son of the father reflected back, as a young man. He said, “When I initially saw that, I was ashamed of my father because he had taken this job;” but he said, “Then, I began to realize that what he had really embraced here was his responsibility to work and to provide for his family. Then, I began to be extremely proud of my dad and respected him, as I watched him take a second job because he didn't quickly find another job where he was able to earn enough money to provide for the family.” He said, “I realize, as I grew up and became a man, what a gift my dad had given to me by modeling self- denial and moving into a tough situation to have to provide for his family.”

So much better than having his doctor wife work.

I'd ask anyone who is doing this—as you make this decision for your daughters and how they relate to a man, later on—for your sons and who they become as husbands, fathers, and breadwinners in the family—are you modeling something you want, from a generational standpoint, to be passed down to succeeding generations?

Yes. But I think I answered this last time.

I think it's a tough question,

Still not that tough.

Bob: but I think it's one that is worth really considering.

I done considered it.

I hope what I have done here is—is hopefully leave enough room for someone to disagree with me or to take on some of these issues, and make a decision, and to ultimately say, “This is God‟s will for me and for us, as a couple, and for our family, in Christ Jesus.” You know what I say to you? “You know what? That is your decision. You've got to make it;” but I do think there is a rebellion against God, occurring in this world, against His design for marriage and for the family. I think the world wants to distort what it means to be a godly man, a godly husband, and a godly father—and the same for being a woman, wife, and mother. I just don't hear a lot of people speaking up today on behalf of God's design and being willing to take the shots that come with it because it's not a popular message, necessarily; but you know what? We aren't called to popularity.

Thank God for that.

This book right here, the Bible—it calls us to live in a counter-cultural lifestyle.

I think I am.

It calls us to embrace the truth of Scripture and to pass it on generationally to others, who, hopefully, will pass it on to their kids. We are involved in a generational war for the soul of the family, and we need to win it.

Bob: Yes. And the only we are going to win it is exactly as you have said—by pointing people back to Scripture.

There it is.

We have to have our hearts and minds soaking in and saturated with what the Bible has to say about how we are to live—first of all, as transformed people, whose lives have been radically altered because of our relationship with Jesus Christ.

And then what that transformed life looks like—in our marriage relationships, as we raise our children, and as we think through the kind of issue we've been talking about here today. You are right. There are going to be folks who hear us talking about this subject this week—in fact, there have already been some who have gone to our website and looked at the transcripts of these programs. They have typed in where they disagree with what you are saying or why they think your view is the wrong view.

Yes we have.

It's fine to engage in that kind of dialog and that kind of debate, but we have to keep pressing one another back to the Scriptures. What does the Bible say? What do we learn from Scripture about the husband's role and the wife's role and how we are to live that out in a marriage relationship?

Luckily it doesn't say anything about men staying home to take care of their kids.

You talk, at length, about what a man's role in a family ought to be, what a man's role in the society ought to be in the book, that you've written, called Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood. You don't address this issue of stay-at-home dads in that book, specifically; but you do address dads as providers and what that provisionary role ought to look like in a family. Again, I want to encourage our listeners, if you don't have a copy of Dennis Rainey's book, Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood, get a copy. Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about how you can order the book from us, online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com.

And then make note of Saturday, August 4th. There are going to be churches all around the country that are hosting the Stepping Up National Men‟s Simulcast with James MacDonald, Crawford Loritts, Robert Lewis, and Dennis Rainey—all speaking at the event. You can find a church in your area that is hosting the event and sign up to join them—be a part of that Saturday event; or, if there‟s not a church in your area hosting the event, there‟s still time for you to sign up and be a host site for the Stepping Up National Men‟s Simulcast. Again, find out more about the event when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Call us, toll-free, at 1-800-358-6329; that‟s 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY”.

I don't know if you've ever stopped to think about what goes into producing a radio program like FamilyLife Today— the recording engineers who work to capture the interviews that we do or the discussions that we have, the folks who provide the transcripts, those folks who have to load the audio so it can be syndicated to our network of radio stations, all around the country, or made available as a podcast online.

There is a lot of work that goes into the production of each day's program, and we have a dedicated staff that works very hard to make sure that we're getting the job done and to do it as cost-effectively as possible; but there is still a cost associated with producing and syndicating this program. You may wonder, “Who pays that cost?” Well, it's folks, like you,

Not me actually.

who help provide the financial support this ministry needs to produce and syndicate this program. That's why we ask you, “If God has used FamilyLife Today in your life,

He hasn't.

then we'd ask you to consider being a part of the financial team that helps pay for the production costs of this program.”

You can do that by making a donation, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. That's what it means when we say we are listener-supported. Folks, like you, respond—make a contribution. We just want to stop and say, “Thanks,” to those of you who have done that in the past and ask those of you, who have maybe never made a contribution, to consider doing that today. Again, you can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call, toll-free, 1-800-FL-TODAY and make a donation. We do appreciate your financial support.

Now, tomorrow, we're going to go from talking about men in the family to talking about a wife's role and a mom's role in the family.

Sounds like so much fun.

Judy Rossi joins us tomorrow as we explore that subject. Hope you can be here with us.

I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow. We are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?

FamilyLife Tomorrow

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript
A Shift in Our Culture

Bob: More and more families are making a decision these days that breaks with centuries of custom and tradition in a variety of different cultures. The decision is for dad to stay home and take care of the kids while mom earns a living.

First, I'm not sure centuries is correct here. But even if he is correct that it breaks with centuries of custom and tradition that is a pretty small time in the history of humans. It certainly doesn't date back to Biblical times for which they will eventually reference as to why dads should not stay at home.

Dennis: It’s not a huge number right now but I do think what’s happening is there is a shift going on in the culture. There is a rejection, in many places, of what is normative. What I want to do is provide a biblical mirror for you to look into, and some biblical perspective to hold up, and perhaps reveal some blind spots that you may have as you consider making this decision.

This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, July 16th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I’m Bob Lepine. We’ll take a look at the phenomenon of stay-at-home fathers today—the good, the bad, and the ugly. Stay tuned.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. So, you really want to open this can of worms?

Dennis: You know, in my office, I have a hornet’s nest. I think I’ve shared with our listeners—I actually paid cash money for this hornet’s nest on E-bay. [Laughter]

Bob: As you mention this, I’m just wondering if I went online and searched for a six- pack of a can of worms—I just wonder if you can get a can of worms. I should get you a six-pack because, from time to time, you just like to pop one open and just see what’s in there. [Laughter]

Dennis: You’re mixing the metaphors.

Bob: I am.

Dennis: We’re going to throw a stone at a hornet’s nest, here, in a moment; but before we pick up a couple of stones and then run for our lives, I just want to say, “Thanks,” to the folks that keep us on the air, here, through their prayers, folks listening, and calling the radio stations and letting them know that they really like what we’re doing here and how we operate.

Translation: We are so brave for standing up against culture.

Bob: Folks who get in touch with us—send us emails—share the word about the program with their friends.

Dennis: Yes, it takes a lot of folks to keep us going, here on FamilyLife Today. These have been challenging times; and I just wanted to say, “Thanks,” to the world’s best listeners and the world’s best donors for making this ministry possible. I just appreciate you. I want you to know that. Now, back to the hornet’s nest. [Laughter]

Bob: Now, let’s get those stones ready.

"All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!" just saying

Dennis: Let’s get back to the hornet’s nest. I want to read an email to get the stone ready here. This is kind of a lengthy email; but I want to read this because I think this guy was genuine who wrote me, and I think it’s a fair ask. I really do.

He says, “Dear Dennis, I’m a stay-at-home dad.” Okay; now are we clear where the hornet’s nest is, at this point? “I’m a stay-at-home dad, and my family and I recently settled into a new city and found a church. While I was there, I was looking for resources on parenting and found your website, as well as a few others. However, I do not see any resources for stay-at-home fathers.

Perhaps his first mistake was looking for parenting advice on their website.

“There is stuff for stay-at-home mothers and single mothers but nothing for a stay-at- home father or, even, fathers who spend more time with their kids and are not the sole breadwinner.”

He goes on and asks a fair question. He says, “Is my lifestyle somehow against the Christian family and that’s why you do not feature any articles or help for a growing segment of the population? At last count,” he writes, “there are 300,000 households led, at home, by stay-at-home fathers.”

So either this guy isn't a very good Christian or the Bible isn't really clear on this subject.

I’m going to stop reading for a moment and just tell you, Bob, I checked into this. This is a growing movement. There are actually conventions on an annual basis for stay-at- home fathers, where they can get together and talk about the challenges of raising children, while their wives are in the workplace, being the sole breadwinner in the family.

You should go.

Bob: So, you are not talking here about guys who are working from home or they have their office in a back bedroom somewhere. These are guys who have taken homemaking and childcare as their primary job, while their wife is in the marketplace or in the workplace, earning the money for the family.

Hey they are talking about ME. I'm on the radio.

Dennis: We’ll talk more about that in a moment. For the most part, that is an accurate statement. He goes on to say, “Am I living in sin?” This is interesting. “Am I living in sin since my wife has a job that more than provides for our family?” He goes on to ask one more. “Should we somehow readjust our lives, top to bottom, so I can earn a third as much and allow her to be home?”

No. Show over, let's move on.

Now, we’re talking about a serious issue here.

He goes on to conclude his email by saying, “Maybe I’m missing something on your website or your ministry. However, I think it’s something that fathers and families out there need, which is support from family organizations and resources, as opposed to being shut out from the conversation; or is it that we are living a sinful lifestyle, as I mentioned earlier, and is best kept in the closet? Pardon the pun,” he said. “Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your response.”

Well, I got his email, and I started thinking about it. You and I talked about it, and we did do a little further research on this. We found out that a 2008 survey—that is done annually on Mother’s Day and Father’s Day—by a website called Careerbuilder.com found that 37 percent of men would stay home with their children if their wife could comfortably support the family.

Bob: That’s like four in ten guys, who would cash it in and stay home. Now, I have to just stop here. Maybe it’s just where I am; but I’m wondering if those guys have ever spent a week at home, taking care of the kids, when they say, “That’s what I’d do”? I’ve had a few days where I’ve done that; and I have been so grateful when my wife has been back home, and I could go back up to work—[Laughter]—just being honest with you, here!

No pay attention, because right now he calls it cashing it in. Definition: To obtain a profit or other advantage by timely exploitation

Dennis: Yes, I understand. I have to tell you, Bob, and I’ll read some more of these a little bit later. I asked for advice from my Facebook® friends.

Bob: Oh, you went right to the experts. [Laughter]

Dennis: I went to the experts, and your comment reminded me of one I received from Julia. She said, “Boy! Would I love that—for my husband to try that for a couple of weeks! We could both use a renewed commitment for me to be the homemaker. I’m pretty sure that that would do it!” [Laughter]

Ha ha ha. That guy can't take care of his own kids. That is so funny. And Godly. Funny and Godly.

Yes, well anyway, here’s another one—said, “Well, my husband would have done a better job than me, except for sewing; and there’s no way I could have done his job.” Yes, so, you know—I’m with you, Bob. I mean, being a homemaker is challenging. In fact, I’m going to tell you something. I still marvel at how Barbara did this with six children—that we had in ten years—and all the things we did in the ministry—because Barbara has helped me, since the beginning of this ministry. Yet, she’s been a worker at home, as well.

So right now we are going down the staying at home is hard work road.

Bob: So, I guess the question is—back to the original email you got—“Is this one of those gray areas, where couples can sit down and determine what makes sense for them, and there’s freedom to do whatever works for you; or is there anything in Scripture that guides us in what has been the more traditional pattern—men go out in the marketplace and earn a living, and women stay home and take care of the kids?”

Dennis: Yes, your question really reminds me of a conversation I had with a young couple, at a convention that was filled with missionaries. This particular couple worked with college students. They came up to me, at the end of one of the messages, and they said, “Is there anything wrong with my husband staying at home with the kids because I really do a better job on the campus than he does. Should we embrace that as our model and as our lifestyle?”

You know, that occurred about five or six years ago; and I’ve thought often, “What would I have said to that young couple if I’d had a good tall cup of coffee because it would have taken about an hour to have had a conversation and to have asked a ton of questions of them to really find out what’s behind that decision. So, my effort here, Bob, is going to be as though I was sitting down with a young couple—maybe, even, my son and daughter-in-law or daughter and son-in-law—who were coming to me for advice.

Bob: So, should our listeners pour a tall cup of coffee?

Dennis: I think they may have to cancel the next broadcast that follows us here on FamilyLife Today. No, we’ll actually take a little extra time and talk about this because here’s what I found out by asking my friends on Facebook. When I raised the issue, a number of them said, “Yes, it’s okay because my husband is better at it than I am. A hundred years ago, it wasn’t an issue because we had an agrarian economy. Men worked around the home and on the farm—he was there. Husbands and wives did it together.”

Others on Facebook said, “When dads stay home”—this is pretty brutal—“the whole family suffers.” So, they were pretty honest about that.

Yes, that is pretty brutal. Factually wrong, but hey.

Bob: So, you’re saying it is split down the middle—from those who would say, “There’s really no big deal, here, to—”

Dennis: No, I wouldn’t say it was split down the middle. Others who said, “Men who don’t work suffer from depression because of their inability to provide.” Another woman wrote, “Money is power. It can give a woman, who’s the sole breadwinner, the power in the family and eliminate the man as the leader of the family.” There are going to be some of our listeners who really do not like that statement.

Not split down the middle with your friends on Facebook. I get that. It wouldn't be split down the middle if i asked my friends on Facebook either. Most all would think it is fine.

Others raised questions of whether a stay-at-home father really projects real masculinity—if that’s something you want your sons to be able to emulate—or your daughters to look for in a husband and in a father of their children.

Cooking, cleaning, laundry, taking care of your kids=not manly. Sitting at a microphone=manly. Got it.

Bob: You are modeling something; aren’t you?

Dennis: You really are. I’m thinking of a dad who never worked—never provided for his family. The wife struggled to provide for the kids. There were four kids in the family. Those kids grew up wondering, “What is the responsibility of a dad if he doesn’t get out and work?”

Working inside the home. Which just a little bit ago you said was really hard work.

This dad didn’t. I won’t get into what he did, but he didn’t go to work. He didn’t get out and provide. As a result, those four kids—as they’ve grown up and married—have all struggled, from an identity standpoint, with either being a man and, “How you do provide for your family,” or with being a woman—a wife and a mother— and how to relate to a man who is something different than their frame of reference.

It also reminds me of another story—that is really at the other end of the spectrum—of a father who had a very lucrative job—made a lot of money, had season tickets to the Dallas Cowboys games—and was laid off. He came home and told his kids. They were initially ashamed as they watched their father take a job that paid significantly less. He even worked alongside some teenagers—in a form of employment that he could find because of the economic situation in their community.

The son of the father reflected back, as a young man. He said, “When I initially saw that, I was ashamed of my father because he had taken this job;” but he said, “Then, I began to realize that what he had really embraced here was his responsibility to work and to provide for his family. Then, I began to be extremely proud of my dad and respected him, as I watched him take a second job because he didn’t quickly find another job where he was able to earn enough money to provide for the family.” He said, “I realize, as I grew up and became a man, what a gift my dad had given to me by modeling self- denial and moving into a tough situation to have to provide for his family.”

I’d ask anyone who is doing this—as you make this decision for your daughters and how they relate to a man, later on—for your sons and who they become as husbands, fathers, and breadwinners in the family—are you modeling something you want, from a generational standpoint, to be passed down to succeeding generations?

Yes, thanks for asking.

I think it’s a tough question,

Actually it wasn't that hard.

Bob: but I think it’s one that is worth really considering.

Bob: Now, we ought to be clear here—you’re talking about somebody who makes a deliberate choice, for an extended period of time, saying, “This is how we’re going to set up our family.” I mean, I’m thinking of those folks, where it may be that a dad gets laid off from a job—we’ve seen a lot of men laid off from their jobs, over the last many months.

Dennis: I’m not talking about the temporary loss of a job. While we are talking about job loss, though—if a man does lose his job—I’m not talking about a man unplugging and just staying home, at that point.

Bob: Okay.

Dennis: I think men, who have lost a job, need to be diligent and deliberate—even though they are fighting discouragement, and depression, and a loss of some of their identity, perhaps. I think they need to fight that through and find full-time employment— to be providing for their family.

I’m also not talking about a father who stays home in the event of the death of his wife. One father—that I heard about through Facebook—stayed at home for a year, to bring stability to his children, in the absence of their mother. I am not talking about that. I’m also not talking about health issues, either.

Bob: I was going to ask about that because some men are at home because of physical disabilities or some kind of a situation that has them sidelined.

So if you are disabled you can't be manly? Is that what you are saying?

What you are really focusing on here is the couple that says, “You know, I think she’s better in the workplace,” or, “She can make more money in the workplace. He’s better at home, taking care of the kids. That just feels right to us, and that’s how we’re going to organize our lives.”

Dennis: Right. There’s one other category I want to just put a disclaimer on. I’m also not talking about men who work from home, full-time. What we’re talking about is, as you said, Bob, a husband and a wife who decide that it’s better for dad to stay home and take care of the kids, while the wife goes out and provides for the family.

Bob: This could be something—I’m just trying to imagine a guy who is a skilled laborer—he’s a trim carpenter, or he’s a plumber. He has a good career, and he fell in love with and married a doctor. She has the training and the background to be able to bring in—for the family—three, four, or five times as much money as his job is going to make it possible for the family to earn.

Dennis: I’ve received emails, laying out that scenario. These are excellent questions that people raise. I want to ask a very fundamental question here; and that is, “What is really going on here?” To answer that question, you have to pull back to the big picture and you have to look at our culture. First of all, we have a culture that is homogenizing the sexes. It is a gender-blender culture. It doesn’t care about the distinctives of male and female—that God created in men and women, in the beginning. In fact, if anything, it wants to distort that distinction between men and women. I also want to say that, in my years of counseling couples, and having talked to a lot of couples who have tried this—this is going to sound pretty painful here—but over time, I have never watched a couple make this work and work well, over an extended period of time. I have seen some make it work in the short-term; but I have never seen a couple—who ended up, at the end of the journey, 15 or 20 years later—happy that they made the choice for the wife to become the sole breadwinner and the husband to provide the nurture and the care for the children.

Bob: You know, as soon as you say that, we have listeners who are saying, “Well, you haven’t heard our story. We’ve gone 10, 15, 20 years; and it is working great for us.”

Dennis: I don’t claim to know all people.

Bob: Right.

Dennis: I just am speaking from my experience of what I’ve seen, and I’ve seen a lot of people try it. Now, having said that; okay?—I’m going to make a couple of absolutestatements. First of all, I’m not going to say that it’s wrong, 100 percent of the time. I’m going to sound like I’m on the fence by making a second statement—by saying, “I will not say it’s right, 100 percent of the time, either!” What I will say is that we live in an imperfect world and that there are some general guidelines of Scripture, that I believe God has given us, that can guide us in the journey in this imperfect world of determining what is God’s will for you, in Christ Jesus. I am not responsible for your decisions made in your marriage and in your family. You are.

I’m just simply trying to give you my perspective—as best I know it from the Scripture, from the experiences God has given me—and lay it out in a way so that I can share with you. Here’s how I would talk to my son and daughter-in-law, if they were about to make this decision, on a permanent basis, for their marriage and their family.

Bob: So, let me see if I hear what you’re saying. You’re saying we can’t make this a black and white, “Thus sayeth the Lord”-kind of a decision—

Dennis: I don’t think the Scriptures speak to it, absolutely, to be able to make that statement.

But let's try anyway.

Bob: —but, at the same time, the Scriptures do give us some clues. We can apply biblically-based wisdom as we evaluate, in our own families, whether this is a right or a wrong decision for our family to make. I’m just guessing here—that you would say, “Most of the time, if we do that, dad’s going to be out doing the work and mom’s going to be overseeing the household.”

Sorry, you guessed wrong.

Dennis: Yes; and I think moms will work outside the home—part-time, full-time. I think that can happen. I think it does happen. Yet, if you want to take a look at what’s happening in the culture—the family is falling apart because of the economic pressures we are putting on it—to have more, acquire more, live at a higher standard. I’m now tipping my hand, Bob, about what I will say about this because I’m looking at the cup of coffee—it’s about half-gone.

Here’s what I’m going to do, as we unpack this, this week. In the absence of any clear biblical prohibition against or blessing for stay-at-home dads, what I want to do is provide a biblical mirror for you to look into and perhaps reveal some blind spots that you may have as you consider making this decision—or, you know someone who has already made it. Perhaps you see them headed for disaster; and maybe, you’d like to help them.

So the Bible doesn't say it. But you will say it and then say how the Bible says it.

It’s not my intention, on this broadcast, to beat people up. Life is tough enough as it is. We’re all about encouraging people, cheering them on—but cheering them on, according to the biblical blueprints—to be a follower of Christ, and to do our best to try to live life the way God designed it, and pass on that perspective to the next generation.

I feel so encouraged. Is my sarcasm font working?

Bob: I feel like we need to say we’re not tackling the issue of two parents working—in this context.

No no no. It is ok for both parents to work. Just not for dad to stay home.

Dennis: No. No, the hornet's nest that we’ve thrown a stone at—this is sufficient. Although, it’s not a huge number right now; but I do think what’s happening is—there is a shift going on in the culture. As we’ll talk about, there is a rejection, in many places, of what is normative in Scripture.

Didn't we just say scripture didn't address it?

Bob: You don’t talk about this specifically in your book, Stepping Up. I mean, you don’t address the phenomena of stay-at-home dads specifically, but you talk about provision and protection and how that is a part of what courageous manhood ought to look like.

Now lets do the manly thing of hawking our wares.

If our listeners don’t have a copy of the book, Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood, I would encourage them to get a copy. I hope many of our listeners are going to be joining us at the Stepping Up National Men’s Simulcast that is taking place on Saturday, August 4th. Details about the simulcast can be found, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com.

You can find one of the simulcast sites near where you live and plan to attend; or if there is not a simulcast site near where you live and your church would like to host one, again, more details can be found, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. The simulcast is Saturday, August 4th. FamilyLifeToday.com is the website; or call if you have any questions: 1-800-358-6329; that’s 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY”.

By the way, we want to say a quick word of thanks to those of you who help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today financially. We are listener-supported. It is folks, like you, who provide the funding for the production and syndication of this daily radio program on a network of stations, all across the country, and around the world, on the internet.

We appreciate your partnership with us. During the summer, when things slow down a bit, every donation we receive is really appreciated. We are grateful for whatever you are able to do to help support FamilyLife Today. Again, thanks for your financial support; and we look forward to hearing from you.

And we want to encourage you to be back with us again tomorrow when we are going to continue to look at the subject of stay-at-home dads and talk about some of the problems that may be associated with that. Hope you can join us.

I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I’m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.